tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13604760.post114704348583246458..comments2024-01-01T05:14:46.672-05:00Comments on Double Articulation: On Existentialism: Why Paper Dolls Do(n’t) Cry, or Steve Gerber’s Myth of SisyphusJim Roeghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16381244745309535742noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13604760.post-81596873654917906572010-02-28T17:47:01.743-05:002010-02-28T17:47:01.743-05:00SO well-written, I had to come back...weird as hec...SO well-written, I had to come back...weird as heck I named a character "Celestia Englehart" almost four years ago...some things!<br /><br />My experiment related to Gerber's going well, in my stories...well, I don't know, what say thee?<br /><br />I love the way your writing puts together 1) the story at hand, illustrated in my mind 2) the feel of those times, inasmuch as i can imagine it 3) serious thought I've explored before, with subject matter that's brought me such joy...really brought me out of the closet about my love of comics; love turning non-comics readers on through the quality of the ideas. I'm so into the tone of your writing voice; you, Plok, and Jason Powell over at REMARKABLE are my heroes and companions, xxx so many smart, funny respondents, tooCeasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16852602817305513997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13604760.post-19617320533376126132009-10-20T06:52:36.258-04:002009-10-20T06:52:36.258-04:00I love this; existentialism has a way of returning...I love this; existentialism has a way of returning to the fore of my thoughts, and I read much of this aloud to my wife, capable as always of analytical rejoinders. I went back to the Defenders (and a completed FF story, "the Vanishing Wave") to create a pastiche fiction aligned with my novel. These viewpoints have been my only guide to Englehart/Gerber era issues just yet, but the story they tell alongside the commentary is evocative, maybe without some of the limitations that plague their 35 year old counterparts. Part two of two ("Remus Sharptooth Regrets...!")is in my stack of five stories emerging bit by bit from my pen, and this is the grist that restores me when burn-out makes angst of my efforts towards memorable work enjoyed by others.lue lyronhttp://www.ceaseill.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13604760.post-1147227775806253622006-05-09T22:22:00.000-04:002006-05-09T22:22:00.000-04:00plok - thanks so much for taking the time to fill ...<B>plok</B> - thanks so much for taking the time to fill out the conclusion of the story--this was all news to me, and extremely interesting, particularly Doc's comment that "There is much to despair at here...but also cause for great rejoicing," which could practically have been lifted from Camus's "The Myth of Sisyphus"! Existentialism was "in the air" at that time, of course, but it would be fascinating to know what books were on Gerber's nightstand in 1974 all the same.<BR/><BR/>There's something very interesting going on with the way that Gerber is fooling around with "fate" and "destiny" in the issue I was talking about that seems to extend into Gerber's Defenders run too: the notion that destiny is in one sense "set" but in another sense not. (This is what the paradox of the disruptive substitution of the Thing for the Hulk suggests to me, at any rate.) It's all probably just a side-effect of "trash-culture" storytelling, but it does have a curious resonance with the extremely complicated (and paradoxical) way that terms like "fate" and "destiny" are deployed in existentialist thought (or Nietzsche, for that matter) where they obviously do not signify "divine" constraint in the more classical sense. Something to dig at in future, perhaps.<BR/><BR/><B>gorjus</B> - on the point of "gems" in "trash culture" that you and <B>plok</B> bring up, I've been approaching it as if these gems have not been randomly scattered but actually condense themes that already inform the stories as a whole--albeit in less precise (less crystaline) ways. I always find that reading trash-culture is such a weird process because until you find a gem, what you're reading really can feel like trash. (Don't be fooled kids! Comics ain't all about Sartre and Derrida!) But then you find a gem, and everything looks different--well, maybe not everything, but some of the goofier parts of the action can suddenly take on a kind of faint glimmer from the light thrown off by those gem-like moments. The reason for this, I think, is not simply due to the viewer's change in perception, but because the goofy story has been informed all along by those deeper impulses that ultimately find (nearly) explicit expression in the gem-like moments. Of course, this isn't to say that the gem is "really" shining at us from a stunning setting. It <I>is</I> set in "trash"--but trash that gleams a little when you polish it. (How's that for a pointless display of tortured metaphors?) It would be interesting (if one had the time) to compare the proportion of gems to faintly gleaming trash to real trash in the stories of a number of writers from this (or any)period. Fruitless, probably, but interesting!<BR/><BR/>Oh, and <B>plok</B> - I have to add Marvel's Essential edition of <I>The Defenders</I> to my pile of comics tomorrow--I'm dying to get a look at that story now!Jim Roeghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16381244745309535742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13604760.post-1147214927414345252006-05-09T18:48:00.000-04:002006-05-09T18:48:00.000-04:00Well, in this situation--the forest may be terribl...Well, in this situation--the forest may be terrible. Seriously--the Thing and the Defenders. People look to Alan Moore for philosophical turns (or, depending on your views--self-involved new age quackery), but back in that time period it was much hard to "write smart." <BR/><BR/>Gerber certainly snuck some stuff in there, but I often see just the trees--mediocre 70's art, an often heavy-handed story, characters that I'm meh about. The secret is that there are gems strewn about.gorjushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13184937227327518682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13604760.post-1147201115428933832006-05-09T14:58:00.000-04:002006-05-09T14:58:00.000-04:00Hi gorjus, thanks for saying that. Sometimes I'm ...Hi <B>gorjus</B>, thanks for saying that. Sometimes I'm not sure if it's a gift or just a mild touch of brain fever (seriously!). There <I>is</I> something deeply satisfying about just...looking at one thing, though, that's for sure. But the flip-side is that I sometimes have trouble seeing the forest for the trees!Jim Roeghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16381244745309535742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13604760.post-1147193064344216602006-05-09T12:44:00.000-04:002006-05-09T12:44:00.000-04:00Jim, this is fantastic. I'm a Sartre fan, but I d...Jim, this is fantastic. I'm a Sartre fan, but I did not see the wonderful parallels you've teased out.<BR/><BR/>You have a trait I have to recognize: the gift of meditation and contemplation. To lift one or two panels out of a series of hundreds (and in black and white, no less!) and evaluate them for their emotional and philosophical content is marvelous.gorjushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13184937227327518682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13604760.post-1147147061539473562006-05-08T23:57:00.000-04:002006-05-08T23:57:00.000-04:00Thanks, friends! And thanks especially to plok fo...Thanks, friends! And thanks especially to plok for getting the ball rolling on this mad Seven Soldiers of Steve business in the first place. I've already learned tons from the other contributors--and I haven't even read them all yet... I also wanted to mention Disintegrating Clone's wonderful essays on Gerber's <A HREF="http://nobodylaughsatmisterfish.blogspot.com/2005/08/song-cry-of-living-dead-man.html" REL="nofollow">Man-Thing</A> and <A HREF="http://nobodylaughsatmisterfish.blogspot.com/2005/09/swan-song-of-living-dead-duck.html" REL="nofollow">Howard the Duck</A> over on <A HREF="http://nobodylaughsatmisterfish.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">Nobody Laughs at Mister Fish</A>. In addition to <A HREF="http://circumstantial.blogspot.com/2006/03/gerbers-defenders-longest-graphic.html" REL="nofollow">plok's inaugural post</A> and <A HREF="http://circumstantial.blogspot.com/2006/04/angar-and-loathing-in-san-francisco.html" REL="nofollow">Thomas's inspired analysis of Gerber's Daredevil</A> over on plok's site, I reread Disintegrating Clone's essays before writing my own piece, as they were my very first introduction to Gerber's work. Now that I'm done, I'm looking forward to catching up on the posts by <A HREF="http://kleefeldoncomics.blogspot.com/2006/03/seven-soldiers-of-steve-epilogue-part.html" REL="nofollow">Sean Kleefeld</A> and <A HREF="http://estoreal.blogspot.com/2006/03/end-of-omega.html" REL="nofollow">RAB</A>, as well as plok's <A HREF="http://circumstantial.blogspot.com/2006/03/meaning-location-and-agency-in.html" REL="nofollow">other</A> <A HREF="http://circumstantial.blogspot.com/2006/03/bildungsroman-of-henry-pym_22.html" REL="nofollow">posts</A>. In fact, I think I'm going to do that right now!Jim Roeghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16381244745309535742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13604760.post-1147115859637977682006-05-08T15:17:00.000-04:002006-05-08T15:17:00.000-04:00What Benjamin and plok said. Just...wow.What Benjamin and plok said. Just...wow.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714171897239398438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13604760.post-1147054400600818492006-05-07T22:13:00.000-04:002006-05-07T22:13:00.000-04:00Wow. You knocked the ball right of the park again....Wow. You knocked the ball right of the park again. Even though I disagree at times with your philosophic viewpoint while discussing these texts, your acumen and your brilliant insights always win me over in the end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com